Raising 2 pups at one time in a Family Setting

Raising 2 Pups
At the Same Time

Why It's a Bad Idea

Kate and Leopold
Photo by www.petraits

I am constantly asked if I think it's a good idea to buy two puppies and raise them together, or people ask what I think about getting their older dog a puppy to keep the older dog company.

My answer is simple - "NO!!! It's a BAD IDEA !!"

In fact, I will not sell 2 of my puppies to people that want to raise them together. This is a road to disaster. There are a number of reasons for this:

1. It's hard enough to raise one pup and give it the socialization that it needs, much less two. Pups end up only getting 1/2 of the amount of time they need to be properly socialized.

2. Dogs are pack animals. This is a much stronger drive than the average pet owner understands. People think that their little puppy comes from an animal that has been socialized for thousands of years, so how could this have any negative effect on them.

3- When puppies are raised togther they become what we call DOGGY. This means they look at the other dog as their buddy and not the human that owns it. Dogs that are raised to run together NEVER develop the kind of human bond that they would have had if they had been raised in a one dog family.

4- These dogs are more difficult to train. Because they don't have the strong human bond, they don't have the desire to please. In fact they often become stubborn.

All dogs have a very strong pack instinct. The more dogs in a pack the stronger the instinct becomes. Raising 2 dogs together means an elevated pack drive, raising 3 dogs means an even higher pack drive.

Pack drive issues mean RANK ISSUES within the pack. Establishing RANK can often mean dog fights. Don't kid yourself that your 5 pound little lap dog will not fight with its 5 pound littermate. This can become a big deal. This means dog fights when the dogs reach maturity (18 to 30 months of age). Read the article I wrote titled DEALING WITH A DOMINANT DOG.

If you wonder what the worse case scenario could be, read my article about a pack of 3 Rotts that killed an 11-year-old boy. The owner is now serving 12 years in prison for murder and I am proud of the fact that my testimony helper put her there.

So elevated pack drive means that one or more of the dogs is going to become the alpha dog. This means dominance problems with the other dogs, family members and guests. It results in dogs becoming more territorial and more aggressive.

People can have more than one dog if they do it right. I currently have 10 or 12 dogs and we are raising 3 puppies. But they are all kenneled separately and we do not allow them to play together. The only time I ever recommend 2 or 3 dogs being together is when there is the PACK LEADER there that the dogs respect to control their behavior.

You may want to read the article I wrote titled THE GROUND WORK TO BECOMING A PACK LEADER.

If you plan on raising two dogs (whether it's two pups or a pup and an adult) it is important they are never left together unattended. When I monitor them and see one trying to get snotty with one of the other dogs, I control the situation. I NEVER ALLOW dogs to settle things themselves by fighting. Many novice pet owners to often do this. That's counter productive to being a pack leader. Pack members expect the pack leader to control things. Pack members respect a pack leader who protects them from bullies.

So if you are going to do what Cindy and I are doing (raising 3 pups at the same time) you had better go out and get three dog crates and expect to spend a great deal of individual time with your puppies. Most intelligent normal people don't do what we do. Think long and hard before you try it.

Adding a Third dog to the family

I also do not recommend adding a 3rd dog to a family, unless the people fully understand the implications of pack behavior. In other words, if your plan is to add a male pup and not keep the dog separated from the other dogs when you are not with the dogs, then do not do it.

The new pup is going to be low man in the pack order and the other dogs are going to remind him of this all the time. They may get along fine, but one is always going to be the alpha dog. When a third puppy is added to this pack it will always be low man, and the middle dog will be all too quick to remind it of that. This will continue until the pup is 18 months to 30 months old and at that point many dogs who have lived together will start to fight.

The key to adding another dog is to keep the dogs separated from the existing dogs when you are not there. I don't allow my pups to even play with older dogs until the pups are 5 to 9 months old (or in some cases even older).

If you do not have a home with dog runs in the back yard, you can accomplish the same thing by using dog crates. Either keep the pup crated when you are gone, or when it is out of the crate keep the other dogs crated.

This does not mean that these dogs can never be allowed to play and run together. They can, but play with the pup needs to ALWAYS be supervised. If the older dogs get down on the pup, you are there to stop it.

Just as importantly, when the pup starts to mature and feel its oats around older dogs, it is your responsibility to protect the older dogs. This is especially important if the older dog is REALLY AN OLD DOG. If you don't control the pup from beating up on a really old dog, the old dog is going to have a very sad and fearful old age. Older geriatric dogs actually go into depression. So remember it's YOUR JOB to teach your pup manners.

If you dont think this is serious, click here and start reading emails from people who have been bit in dog fighte, who have experienced dogs fights and even experienced dogs being killed in dog fights

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QUESTION on raising two dogs:

I received two male puppies from the same litter at 16 weeks. They are ~3/4 Lab and 1/4 Chow. They are now at 21 weeks. I have 5 acres mostly surrounded by brush. For about the last two months I kept them in a 10' by 20' wire mesh kennel with their separate 2 1/2' by 4' dog houses. I created the kennel to protect them at night. They were let out usually around 9AM with my wife, 3 & 4 year old sons home with them about 80 to 100% of the time they were out. The weekends were not much different except I'm at home as well. They would spend most of their time visibly in and around the house but with 5 acres it was not unusual to not see them then find them under the
deck for shade, or exploring within the property. They were put back in their kennel at dusk. More and more recently, the puppies have taken to going to the near neighbor's and barking at or tormenting their dogs. Three adult dogs about their size at one neighbor and three large German Shepards that are fortunately behind a new chain link fence at the other neighbor's. If they bothered the neighbor's dogs I would put them back in the kennel for at least 2 hours or for the rest of the night if it was after 3PM. In trying to teach them the property boundaries I have tried to walk them together and separately around the property saying "No" and pulling back on the body harness when they would go beyond the flagged boundary. Unfortunately, even with my wife, walking two puppies and 3 & 4 year old boys does not work. If I tried to walk them separately, their attention was 90% with the sight or sound location of the other pup, so that did not work either. I learned of the problems of trying to raise litter mates and suspect it may be part of the attention problem I'm having in training them. This last Saturday, I created a similar second kennel about 80' away out of sight of the first one and moved a dog house to it. I tried to walk the boundary on Sunday with the Alpha who had previously refused to walk on a leash. This time I received about 80% cooperation and gave lots of approval and a beef treat for. On the other hand, the other pup who would walk on the leash the previous day now only went a fraction of the way and I ended up carrying him back to the kennel with no anger or reprimand and spend some time there combing his fur. Since I separated them I have advised my wife not to let them both free at
the same time. It is usually when they are together they leave the property although the Alpha may be the initiator of that. I have also installed a containment fence w/collars and an electric shock fence beyond that. Although functioning the containment collars have not worked which may be a
combination of being too weak and not enough training. The shock fence was about a one day deterrent which they have now found a way to bypass. I only completed the containment fence a week ago and I'm hoping that with a stronger collar and more training it may make a difference. The shock fence was put up on Saturday.

I would assume that this type of problem is not new. Do you have a training method, regime or advise that can be useful in teaching them not to cross the property boundary? If not, do you know a source?

ANSWER on raising two dogs:

I suggest that you make some changes.

I would read what I have written on my web site about trying to raise 2 dogs at one time. It is not going to work. If I cannot do it you certainly don't have a chance. You are in for serious dog fights when these dogs start to mature.

Either find a home for one of these dogs, or set up separate kennels and keep them separated all the time. You are risking your children here.

Read the articles I have written about CHOWS.

Obedience train these dogs. Having to carry a 5 1/2 month old pup is foolish If you would like to learn more about the principles of obedience training a dog, read the description for my Basic Dog Obedience video. You will probably find that you have not had the full picture on the steps of training a dog must go through before it can be considered fully trained. You can also read why I am not a fan of taking an untrained dog to obedience classes. I think if you read the testimonials on that tape you will see that my customers feel the same way. Get this tape and a prong collar and start training before you have serious problems.

You use surveyor flags on the perimeter of your property to teach a dog to stay in. When you cannot even walk a dog on a leash - how can you train it to do anything else? There are only two in-ground products worth buying Innotek or Invisible Fence. Your dealer should have told you how to train the dog.

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I have a question. I have two puppies and raising the both of them is too much. They have been together for about 3 months. I want to sell one and I am wondering will the other puppy I keep be lonely and sad that the other one is gone. The only reason why I would keep both is so that they could keep each other company when I am at work. Any thoughts?

Sabine

Ed's Answer

The answer is NO - you should be your dogs family pack and puppies sleep 15 hours a day. So they dont need other dog playmates. Thats a ANTHROPROMORPHOIC problem that people have

QUESTION on raising 2 dogs:

My daughter has 3 Chow/Pit mix dogs, age 1 year. 1 male and 2 female, all from the same litter. One of the females is not fixed.She also has a Shepherd mix female 3 years old who is fixed. The Sheherd and the female not fixed lived together at my home for seven months. The fixed male and fixed female lived at a neighbors home for the same time. The four have been brought together for about 4 weeks now.They have been brought up in a loving way since birth and they live in a huge backyard now. All was going well until a week ago. My daughter walked outside not knowing there had been a fight between the fixed male and the female Chow that was not fixed. She did not know she was in heat.My daughter's concerns are after the female has healed, and after she has her fixed, will it be safe to put them together again. Also did her being in heat cause the fight? Both dogs involved in the fight are normally very loving and get along. Who was the aggressor? There were no marks on the male, only blood on his face and leg as if it was rubbed off from the female.She, on the other hand, had multiple bite wounds on the front right leg and right ear. Thank you for your help and advice.

Sincerely,
Joyce

ANSWER on raisining 2 dogs:

You have a dog pack and don’t have a clue about the instincts that are generated by pack behavior. This fight may or may not have had something to do with the dog being in heat. The fact is it happened as a result of rank issues within the pack.

You will never be able to put these dogs together again. Start finding homes for these dogs.

Read the article on my web site about Chows, about how to break up dog fights, and about dog aggression.

What your daughter is doing is stupid. If she wants to keep more than one dog then she needs to build individual kennels.

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QUESTION on raising two dogs at the same time:

I called today and spoke with a nice woman who gave me some advice about a problem I’m having with my dogs, and she suggested I email the story to you. Like many other people, I believed that it was not only ok, but it was a good idea to get to puppies from the same litter and raise them because ‘they could take care of each other’. Well, I think I’ve learned that was not exactly the smartest thing to do.

Last summer, my wife and I were looking for a GSD puppy and went to a kennel and they had two males from the same litter. My wife and I discussed it and decided we’d decided to get both puppies and just raise them together. This worked out fairly well at first and they were pretty ‘typical’ puppies...playing together, fighting a little with each other, friendly, cute. We had the potty trained quickly and began taking them to ‘dog training’ classes.

Everything was going along well until one day during class we noticed that one of our dogs began to be a bit uncontrollable and barked at every dog in the room. We figure it was ‘just a teenager making noise’ and he would grow out of it. Then, a few months later, the other male started doing it. Then, the fights began getting just a bit more heated. Now, during this time, I would take them to work with me as I have my own office. I share the office with a friend who has two mix dogs (one female and one male). It took a few weeks, but all four dogs became friendly towards each other and generally, life was good. Then, my male took over.

Sort of ‘overnight’ he began dominating the other dogs. The barking got louder and at one point a bit vicious. My wife was in the office and our male was sitting on the couch with her and my friend’s male just walked in my office and my male basically roared at him...literally jumped off the couch and got nose to nose with him and really barked loudly. That was enough for my friend, who now has his dogs separated from mine in his own office.

I talked with my wife and we decided to neuter both our males for general safety, but also hoping to reduce the aggression and hyperness. I have no idea if this is going to solve anything. Now, my dominant male is growling at our other male and I am finding that I have to ‘separate’ them at home and scold him for growling. I think maybe we failed our dogs.

I’m not sure what to do, but we never intended to raise aggressive ‘protection’ type animals. We wanted friendly, smart, strong dogs and up to a point, absolutely have just that. But I didn’t count on the aggressive, dominant behavior. If we have kids, I’m just a bit worried about having our dogs in our house around a baby and I’m also a bit cautious about having friends bring over their kids in case our dominant male decides he doesn’t like what the other one is doing while one of the kids is playing with them. Could you please help us by recommending something we could do?

We’ve thought about sending them both to a ‘boarding training school’ to help train and help us to control them better. We’ve talked about removing one of them to a GSD rescue location, or even removing them both to a great home and simply starting over. We’ve invested lots of time and money into them and they really are great animals. But I am having trouble with the behavior and need help. We realized, a bit too late, that we should have controlled them much better and no longer let them on the couch and make them sit and lie down for everything including going outside. But I don’t know if we are too far along with them to change their behavior.

Thanks in advance, for any advice you could offer.

Lew

ANSWER on raising two dogs:

If you read my web site you will see that I tell people NEVER TO TRY AND RAISE 2 pups at the same time. IT NEVER WORKS. If I cannot do it you certainly cannot do it.

In additional you did everything wrong in allowing them to live together.

Sending these dogs away for training is not a solution. Find a home for one of them and train the other. I am not sure why you would start over when you have gone through the worst part.

There is no magic bullet her to fix this problem. It is not fixable. You either get two dog crates and keep them separated forever, or you find a home for one. The people you train with are amatures they should have told you these things.

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QUESTION on raising two dogs:

Dear Mr. Frawley.

Please can you help ? We have two JR 6mth old brothers who apart from the occassional scrap where they had to be separated have alway slept and eaten together and have been good together. Last Saturday however after being on my lap together and playing together they suddenly flipped.

They growl at each other and if they were allowed would definatley have a bad fight. On Tuesday morning I had them both neutered, but they still can't stand one another. They still go for walks on the lead together in a controlled situation and are ok being next to each other. What can I do? The dogs belong to my two sons and how can I get rid of one?

Veronica

ANSWER on Raising Two Dogs at one time:

Your options are:

1- Bite the bullet and find a new home for one of these dogs

2- Get two dog crates and keep these dogs separated for the rest of their lives. I seriously doubt that you are going to be able to train these dogs not to fight.

3- Train your dogs - get my 4 hour DVD Basic Dog Obedience - with two JR you will need a solid trianing plan

Read the article I wrote titled DEALING WITH A DOMINANT DOG.

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I’ve already smacked myself on the head for getting two pups at the same time so you don’t have to do that for me.

We have two 9 m/o golden retriever littermates, one of each sex. We’ve had them since they were 8 weeks old. The female, Chena, is the dominant. They are housebroken (ring a bell to go out), sit, stay, and we’re working on come when off leash. Occasionally they will be playing with the same toy and fight. I think Chena starts it most often. If I bang on the table or give a sharp “Stop that!”, they will break off and shake their little heads.

This morning I gave each of them a bone. Chena had hers but when I gave Kenai his she wanted that one too. When he tried to get it back she launched into him. She was pretty fierce.

I train them separately, take them for walks both together and alone, have them out in the yard with me together and alone, etc. We have tons of other dogs in the neighborhood so they get a lot of interaction with other dogs. They are very sweet dogs with humans (working on the sitting quietly when meeting people) and for the most part of a joy to have around.

I’m wondering if the fighting could escalate and what steps I can take to prevent that. I love having the two dogs and would hate to have to separate them. They are both altered and other than this occasional spat (maybe 2-3 a month) get along great and pine when the other isn’t in view.

Thank you in advance for your assistance.

Sue

Answer on Problems with 2 Dogs:

The odds are these fights will esculate with age. The solution is better training, and changing the way you live with your dogs.

You need two dog crates for the house or two dog kennels outside. I would only have one dog loose at a time and I would train them when they are separated.

If these were my dogs I would run them both through my Basic Dog OBedience program I would be using a prong collar or an electric collar for training. With that said - many people have no idea on how to use an electric collar. You can do some research on my web discussion board to learn a little about collars. I recommend the DOGTRA 1200 collars - thats what I use. We sell them

You are doing some things correctly and some things that could be done in a different weay with better results. When you meet your dogs always let the dominiat dog first and push the second dog away when it tries to move in. Then pet the second dog and push the dominat dog away when it comes back to be petted. The dogs instinctually understand this.

Read the article I wrote on my web site about DOG PARKS. BAD IDEA to allow your dogs to interact with strange dogs. If you continue you need to read the article I wrote on how to breakup a dog fight without getting hurt.

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QUESTION on Raising 2 Dogs at Same Time:

Hello.. I am writing this after reading your website, and I hope you can help me.
I own an six month old Labrador (male, shortly to be neutered). He is a very good natured, easy going dog, who is obidient, well trained and used to socialising with other dogs both in the home, and on 'neutral ground'.

Largely for the dog's benefit, after seeing how bored and lonely our last dog was (he was an only dog), we have recently offered to rehome a four month old Cocker Spaniel puppy, who is also male and will be neutered when he can be. The idea of this is to provide both dogs with companionship when we are out of the house, as well as giving them a friend each (our cat doesn't play proper puppy games although he tries his best!). As dogs are a pack animal, we thought it would be beneficial to them to have the company of their own species, as well as human company.

We are experienced dog owners, we have had dogs all our lives, but have not yet had to introduce two similiarly aged dogs together.

I was wondering if, in my situation, you would still recommend the cage method to introduce the dogs to one another (both dogs currently sleep in their cages and are left in them when we are out of the house, so they are both comfortable in this situation). We were hoping to introduce the dogs on neutral ground, on their leashes, and allow them to see each other out and about out of the house before living together.

If you have any advice I would be more than grateful to recieve it.
Thanks again, and yours sincerely..
Louise.

ANSWER:

I follow your thinking and your logic. The only problem is you are wrong. Unless you use dog crates and keep these dogs separated until they are a year old this is not going to work.

If you want to get a second dog, get a female and do the same protocol.

You are correct that dogs are pack animals. The part you misunderstand is the RANK ISSUE of a dog pack. It leads to dog fights.

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Hello Mr. Frawley -

I am yet another dog owner who made the mistake of getting two puppies from the same litter at the same time. Two, neutered, males that are 1/2 Chihuahua and 1/2 toy poodle - 9 1/2 months old. They have been kenneled together at night and left in a large washroom area together during the day
since I got them 6 1/2 months ago. I also let them spend time unattended
together -especially running around the backyard.

I wish I had read your article about raising two pups before I purchased them, but instead I found your article just after I decided that for the good of the pups, as well as myself, I needed to give one up. I will provide more info. on the pups down below, but should you be too busy to read that I will get straight to my concern (and hopefully not end of on the Dumb and Dumber list!)...

Although I originally thought a separation might be hard on the puppies while they were first apart, I still felt like my decision was the right one
- until I called the breeder to get some advice (although I have to admit her info. has not always been spot-on in the past). She advised me keep both of them and "wait it out", because they will calm down in a few months, and she said it would probably be too hard on them to be separated now. She advised at least signing a contract with whomever I give or sell the one puppy to stating that I have the right to buy him back in thirty days if the separation does not work out. But, I wouldn't want to sign a contract like that if I were getting a puppy.

So, I am concerned about the puppies being traumatized and/or suffering separation anxiety since they have been together so much since they were born. I located your website shortly after talking with the breeder.

>From what I have read of your articles - what the breeder said doesn't
> match
up with your line of thinking. I called your kennel and was advised that you often answer emails, so I was hoping you could shed some light on this issue - and perhaps provide me with some tips on "weaning" them off each other until I can find a good home for the one I am willing to give up.
Last night I started putting them in separate kennels to sleep, and sometimes I put a baby gate up between their play areas before I leave for work (esp. if they are fighting) but when I do this, they are usually crying by the end of the day (which my roommate, who is not a big dog fan, does not appreciate when it goes on for too long - but she is willing to suffer some crying in the short-term in order to take care of the situation).

I love being a dog owner, and want happy, healthy, (well-trained) pups -

Thank you so much for your time!
____________________________________________________________________________

COMMENT:

In my research before I bought my little guys, I found very little guidance when it came to getting two pups. What I did find usually advised that raising two together could be done, as long as you spent time alone with each one. Plus family friends (a retired married couple) had recently purchased two poodles and strongly recommended that I do the same. Well, I am early thirties, single, and working full time, and have found that it has been very difficult to give each pup the individual attention they crave and deserve. I originally got two puppies so they wouldn't be lonely while I was at work. I spend a good deal of time with them, but each one jumps over the other for attention, and then they get distracted by each other and run off together. They also get in fights several times a week.

The smallest one (black short hair, 7lbs, looks like a Chihuahua) is more dominant and aggressive. The larger on (brown soft curly hair, 12 pounds, looks like poodle) is more laid back - and I think he feels neglected because the other one is so "in your face" about wanting (thus often getting) attention. The little one is less trusting and makes less eye contact and barks more. They like to be petted, but don't sit on my lap.

In the evening when I would like to sit with them, the only way to keep them from chasing each other around in my small living area is to give them each a bone. Then they want the other ones bone, chew toy, whatever - esp the black one. They also have food sharing problems. The little one often growls at the big one when he tries to eat, so I have been separating them lately, but there is still friction - and sometimes they won't eat when apart. Also, like you mentioned in one of your articles, they are not bonding with me - so selfishly, I feel like I am missing out on some of the joy and love that comes from being a pet owner. I took them to training classes separately and try to walk them separately sometimes, but one cries when I take the other one out. They are not as well trained as I had hoped
because the one-on-one time I spend with them is limited.

I plan on keeping the larger dog - but will make sure the little one gets a good home. I paid $700 each (more than I would normally have to spend, but had just finished a short term overseas assignment in the MiddleEast so I splurged on puppies since I had wanted a small breed for so long)...ANYWAY, I am willing to give the black one away for free to a good home - although I would prefer to get $2-300 if possible.

Finally, just the thought of spending time and bonding with only one dog just feels right to me. Maybe I am searching for justification. But I truly believe all three of us will be better off in the end.

COMMENT:

Hi, Im writing you because I do not believe what you stated about having 2 puppies in the same home. I raised 4 Staffordshire in the same home. They all eat together, play together and left unattened together. If the owners knows how to trian them then usually it's okay. Yes I believe in packs but I do not believe it is wrong or a bad idea to raise more then one in the same home. Thanks for reading my proof and opinion.

From: Ian & Courtney

ED'S RESPONSE:

I will add this to the dumb and dumber section on my web site. Write me back when these dogs are 2 years old. In the mean time read the article I wrote on how to break up a dog fight without getting bit. You can find these if you go to the list of training articles and scroll down.

COMMENT on 2 Dogs:

I read your answer to raising 2 pups at the same time.

I recently purchased 2 English Mastiff breeding bitches. (Before I found your website)
They are 2 yrs old and litter mates.

There have been a few scraps since I brought them home. Mainly over attention with me. They are in separate crates and kennel. They have no problems with my other animals, just themselves.
I have started feeding them one at a time out of the same dish and between a kennel wall, trying to get them used to the new environment and each other.

After a few weeks of doing this, I took them outside to see how they acted with each other. No problems at all.

Then, later that night, as I was taking one out, the other popped the kennel door.(my fault)
As I tried to get the one back to the kennel, a fight broke out on the stairs. Do you think this could have just been a fluke of them bumping each other the wrong way in close quarters, or I should continue to keep them separated unless muzzled?

Thank you,
Dan

COMMENT on Raising 2 Dogs at Same Time:

Mr. Frawley,

I spent about four hours reading your website last night and, while the conclusion it lead me to is a sad one, I believe it is the correct one. I adopted 2 male Malamute puppies (littermates)and while training has gone fairly well, I now understand that I have made a grave error. I expected the job of raising the two of them to be difficult and require much more effort than raising just one, what I did not know was that pack issues would make them violent toward each other.

Now I do.

My only course of action is to find another home for one of them. It's going to break my heart to let him go but it is the only option that is fair to both the pups and myself. I lost my first Malamute to lime disease about a year before getting the pups and having him put-down was one tough decision.
Now I've had to make another one. Thanks for all of the excellent,straightforward information on your site - it made my course of action quite clear. I will not subject these pups to constant confinement in crates just to keep them together. Choosing between them will not be easy as both have progressed well in their training so far and neither is the "bad guy" in starting the fights. Prior to reading so much of your site last night I had expected that once the dominant pup had secured his spot the fighting would stop. Since I now know otherwise,I will do the right thing and make my choice.

I am very impressed with your frank approach to dog training and intend to implement it with my remaining pup. The result should be a better and happier life for all three of us. The pups have very different personalities, each with pluses and minuses so choosing one will not be an easy task. My inclination is to go with the less dominant one (he was the first one in the litter to react to me when I was picking them out). They are both good pups and on their way to becoming great dogs. They just can't live together.

Thanks again,
Bob

QUESTION on 2 Pups Fighting:

Hi.

I used google to do some research on my two pups new habit of fighting and found your site. I appreciated your straight-forward style and insistence on pointing out owner/handler faults -- and solutions.

I had to have my 15 year old yorkie put to sleep after she was not able to have quality of life any longer. We adored our little pet and decided to get two more after she died.

The litter mates, both females, are loving little pups. They spent each moment together until about the age of 5-6 months, when they began fighting rather aggressively. We talked with our vet and our dog trainer (they were enrolled in "puppy school" to learn the basics....) who both explained that they were adolescing...and that having them spayed would likely solve the problem.

Well, we are almost one month post-surgery -- and though the "fights" seem less severe, they still take place. We must keep them completely separate from one another -- and want to try to integrate them again...so are looking for expert advice on how to do this, why it happens, etc.

Can you provide any explanation or insight? Can you make any suggestions as to how to remedy this situation. They are truly our pets - and we like to have them have free reign of the house when we are all home....which is our goal. While we are gone, they each have their own crate (as we learned that this was the best way to train the dogs...).

I look forward to hearing from you.

Ed's answer on the 2 Yorki Pups that fight:

I have written some article on this and have a section on my web site that I just started to add emails to a couple of weeks ago – yours will go there to.

Read the article on WHY ITS A BAD IDEA TO TRAY AND RAISE TWO PUPS AT THE SAME TIME

Read the Q&A section on Inter Female Aggression (I have not had time to write answers to these yet

I am sorry to tell you this but unless you make some changes your problems just started and neutering is not going to help them.

For one this your Vet needs a lot more training (as does the person you are using to help train) I guess this does not surprise me – in 45 years I have only met 2 Vets who knew how to train a dog.

My advise is find a home for one of these dogs. If you don’t want to do this use dog crates and keep them separated FOREVER at least read my article on how to break up a dog fight without getting bit. You can find the list of 300 or so training article I have written there is a lot of information there too.

QUESTION on 2 Pups Fighting:

I have two 7 month old shepherd mix puppies that are constantly play fighting they never pay any attention to me and i am afraid their play fights will get to be real fight and the smaller one will get hurt please help me.

Morgan

Ed's Answer on problems with 2 pups fighting

Your problems have just begun.

QUESTION on Raising 2 Pups at Same Time:

Hi there,
I came across your web-site today...apparently in the 'nick of time'. We have purchased 2 miniature, longhair dachshunds that are about 2 weeks apart in age. The first one is coming home in 2 weeks. Of course, after reading through your web-site, I now realize the serious issues associated with raising 2 dogs. I had NO IDEA and OF COURSE the 2 breeders I'm going through and the three online 'experts' I emailed told me it would be a great idea to buy 2 so I went ahead.

I guess my questions is...'How can do the best for them?' Here is some of what I've gathered:

-Separate kennels/crates
-Individual attention and training
-An 'Obedience' DVD for techniques

Thanks a million,
Lucy

ANSWER:

You are on the right track. If you haven't done it yet, I suggest you read my article on Raising 2 dogs at the same time, and Dealing with a Dominant and Aggressive Dog. My article on the Groundwork to Becoming Pack Leader is also a good place to start.

Good luck.

COMMENT on Raising 2 Pups Together:

We had gotten 2 silky terriers over the weekend after a long search. I read your warnings on multi-pup households and am committed to working on keeping them both.

We homeschool so that I have the time 24/7 needed to spend on them and my wife and I are committed to that. We immediately bought two crates and leash them ALWAYS when not in the crate. And as soon as I read your warnings we ceased letting them play together unleashed. And are implementing your methods and recommendations as best as we can.

I immediately ordered your Basic Obedience DVD and look forward to it's arrival.

Of course, as you expect, the vet yesterday encouraged us to neuter them de-facto. We are not entirely comfortable with that. It is not just the money but I just cant believe that a dog is so stupid that it can not be trained to control it's behavior. If a Working GSD can be left outside in a "down stay" for 8 hours... then it must be possible. We have no problem with them sleeping separate permanently. As they are a toy breed we do not plan on ever leaving them unsupervised (together or not) unless they are in their own separate crate. We have no problem with them being leashed 100% of time outside the crate.

We are more concern with trained family companions than the temporary discomfort of training. I have even explained to our children that their own roles needs to change. Thank you for your information as it may save us from seeing this as a mistake rather than a blessing to our family.

ED'S RESPONSE:

I have never seen a working dog that can be put in a down stay for 8 hours. You did not see this on my web site. You also cannot reinvent the wheel. So when the shit hits the fan – don’t look to me for answers. Just because you bought the video does not mean that I AGREE WITH WHAT YOU ARE DOING. I spent my life learning to live with and train dogs. What you are doing will not work. If I can't do it you can't do it.

My wife and I are getting a Sheltie puppy from a reputable breeder. My wife wants to get two puppies but I think one would make more sense. She thinks that the 2 dogs would keep each other company while we are a work. I see problems with double vet bills, training, yard cleanup and just more work. Shelties seem to get along well with each other but who knows what will happen when we're away.
Any advise?
Joe in NC

Ed, I have a 12 week old maltese that we have had for three weeks and are housetraining and cratetraining. We've been pretty successful with the crate training after three weeks and the puppy only whimpers a little bit some of the time when put in the crate. This weekend we are going to get another 9 week old maltese should we allow this new puppy to share the same crate or should we purchase a new crate for the new puppy? Puppy #1 is very attached to me at this point.

Thank you for your time, your website has been very helppful.

Lisa

Ed's Answer

The only way this is going to work is to use 2 crates and keep these dogs separated. Bottom line is its not fair to either pup because it hard enough to raise one pup correctly

Hi Ed,

My family and I are considering placing our dog with a rescue group, someone else without children, the possibility of putting him down, or seeking a professional trainer skilled in this area.
My wife and I have a daughter eleven years old and two littermate newfies nearly ten months old--a black female and a landseer male. Both have been fixed. The female is good natured, but the male exhibits aggressive behavior when he has a food possession he prizes. We've had incidents with a bone, dead bird and mole, and recently a cat toy mouse that I'm sure he thought was a cherished food item. He bit my wife's arm today over the mouse. His behavior is not aggressive around normal dog food and at all other times.

When growling incidents have occured, I have had some success with verbal reprimands, or forcing the dog into submissive behavior by wrestling him to the ground, etc. but he doesn't always back down until I've forced him to. I may be a large man, but he is a growing boy.

Where do we go from here? Please let me know if you need more information on his environment, etc.

Thanks,
Michael

Hello,

I have just found your web site and after reviewing a lot of your articles I was impressed.

I have a question on the crate.

We have 2 Mini Schnauzer male 4 month old puppies both brothers. We actually only had one but the people who bred our 1st puppy decided that because of the litter size (9 puppies) he was the last one and they were just going to send him to the pound . So... we took another puppy.

My question is this I do crate train but with both of them I have a larger crate and wanted to know if it was ok for me to have them both in the same crate? It seems to be working so far, however, we've only had number 2 puppy a few days and he has had no potty training. I also would like to know if you have any recommendations on how to train 2 puppies at the same time. I have has lots of luck with 1 but never 2 I am worried a little about the dominance issue. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks Melissa

Ed's Answer:

I recommend that you find a home for one of these pups. If you do keep them you need to use 2 dog crates and keep them separated until they are 6 to 8 months old and trained to distraction.

Here is the DVD's you need:

YOUR PUPPY 8 WEEKS TO 8 MONTHS

Basic Dog Obedience

Regards,
Ed

Ed,

First let me say I love your website and have spent hours listening and reading. Our breeder recomended it to us when we decided to purchase a second puppy.We have two german shepherd puppies, a female 4 1/2 months and a male 3 months. Both from the same breeder. We lost our 8 year old female GSD to cancer and had always wanted two at the same time but figured she was too set in her ways to introduce a new puppy. Fast forward to the present. We bought our female first and she was house trained and knows basic commands very quickly. She did show signs of nervous barking at other dogs( not people, very friendly) when we took her to the vet the first couple of times. We bought the male three weeks ago and he had much calmer temperment. Initially we tried the introduction on the front lawn and she wanted no part of having him around and snapped and barked at him. My mistake but at least i knew what was ahead of us. We started with two crates sleeping side by side and eventually got to the point where they look at each other curiously and even will lick each other through the door if one is passing on it's way out for a walk. However that's not all the time, the female will bark at him if he's in the crate on occasion and that's when i step in and stop her. We are at the point now where one is in the crate at night when we watch tv and the other is out on a leash. When the female is put in the crate she has a very nervous bark and whine initially but stops and calms down, however if he runs up to the crate and gets in her face she will bark where as he won't when he's in the crate.I spend alot of one on one time with them as i took her to work with me at first and now i take him and she stays home with my daughter( I also have a crate at work). Training is going well with him also and he knows basic commands. When we walk them every day my wife and i stay on opposite sides of the street and they are both pulling towards the middle. The female all the time and the male 1/2. When she tires we get closer and it usually results in her trying to jump on his shoulders or at times actually trying to bite his fur. This has gone on for 2 weeks now and we are at a roadblock. Now he tries to jump on her shoulders and dominate and it usually results in a dogfight and we pull them apart. However if we use treats or toys on the walks to distract each one of them they calm down. We've gotten to the point where at times after walks they will lay down and share a bowl of water and she even throws her ball to him. They will at times fight over the ball though and then it is taken away. They are fed seperately and also walked seperately to go to the bathroom and know the routines and there is no barking when doing this while the other is crated. My question is are they too young to use a dominant dog collar. After reading your articles and working to be a good pack leader is it time to try and take some drive out of her on these walks. I have tried laying her down on her side, holding the leash so she can't pick her head up and calmly talking to her and petting her for as long as her nervous whining lasted and then she would calm down and when I let her up her full attention was on me and no problem going after him anymore on that walk. This started to calm her down to a point where they could be with each other on these walks but then he started trying to mount her or jump on her shoulders and even bite her and now we are going in circles. One on one with her does accomlish a goal for a little while. He has started barking at other dogs now which he never did. Is he too young for a dominant dog collar. I know it's hard to give you every detail and i have read where you recommend giving up one dog but we've made progress in a short time and i feel with the time and effort and proper advice from you my wife and i can eventually get these two dogs to accept each other.

Thanks,
Joe

Ed's comments

It is time to start to exert more control on these dogs. If I had them I would use a dominant dog collar http://leerburg.com/746.htm or a remote collar at low level stimulation.

I would also recommend my Basic Dog obedience DVD.

Your doing the right thing in keeping these dogs separated. They should not be allowed together until they are 8 to 10 months old – with the determining factor being them working in obedience under distraction in the presence of the other dog.

Kind Regards,
Ed Frawley

Example of How Raising 2 Dogs Doesn't Work

Dear Ed,

I have 2 female Australian Blue Cattle Dogs, they are sisters we have had them from birth, unfortunately their mum who we also owned died when her pups were 6 weeks old. It is not very often but the dogs have started fighting,they will be 2 in october. My partner and I have always treated them equally and can't understand why they are fighting. I have had to start to seperate them when I am alone as I couldn't even try to stop them alone and am scared of them getting hurt. We love both the dogs and don't want to get rid of either of them. Do you have any suggestions as to what could stop this before it gets any worse? Would desexing them help at all?

Regards,
Desley Knight.

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